dlg note...
A friend of mine made the following comment, and submitted a few verses for my response. As you will see, I did not address the verses he referenced, but I gave him a quick answer. I hope to get back to his passages eventually. I do appreciate his question and kind remarks. My short answer was not from being curt, but for the purpose of being eager.
(friend said)...
I am not advocating that anyone who is offended by drinking alcohol to do so. I think that would be sin to violate your conscience. I would just like to hear your position on how you handle these verses, since I know you are a very studied person.
dlg response...
dlg response...
A quick answer is that Christians are to AVOID the appearance of evil and Christians are not suppose to cause others to stumble.
1 Thessalonians 5:22
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
Romans 14:13-23
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
If the principles I covered in the post and mention in this comment are accurate, then no one needs to drink alcohol. It is said that alcoholics are born with a natural propensity and weakness concerning alcohol. While some folks may be able to drink a glass (or whatever), there are others who will be addicted to this intoxicant with their first taste. If a person takes their first taste because they see a Christian drink, and that person becomes addicted to something that does cause untold misery, then that Christian has not avoided the appearance of evil and that Christian has put an unnecessary stumbling block before someone.
Also, the Bible is clear about NOT DRINKING STRONG DRINK.
You will notice that i did not address your passages. In fact, I have faced many passages, usually offered by drunks in defense of drinking. I am not saying that your references don't need to be answered, but I don't need to answer them in order to support my argument in my post and in this comment. There is nothing in the Bible that is going to contradict the idea of avoiding the appearance of evil or the idea of putting stumbling block in front of others.
As I said, no one needs to drink and in fact, there are multitudes who must not drink alcohol. Drinking alcohol is not for anyone's good but it is for selfish pleasure.
I have family who been destroyed by alcohol. I have family who have lost loved ones to alcohol. I have friends who have lost loved ones because of alcohol. DRINKING ALCOHOL IS NOT A NECESSITY. GIVE IT UP is my cry.
I have friends and loved one who have relatives who are either held in the grip of alcohol or are ripe candidates for addiction. GIVE IT UP for other people's sake.
This is not a great forum for arguing my position. However, I cannot see why any Christian would promote the consumption of alcohol (by example) when the benefits are nil and the tragedies are beyond measure.
Love is the answer. For love of Christ and love of others we should give up that which is destroying others. Love of God and love of others should supercede love of Bud or love of wine or love of any alcohol beverage.
And, by the way, I understand that the Romans passage is addressing the problem of meat offered to idols. However, the principle of love ruling in our lives is applicable here. Another thing I want to mention is the fact that the Romans passage is not saying that disobedience to the law or commands of God (murder, blasphemy, adultery etc) are on the same level as eating meat and drinking wine in this context. LOVE fulfills the law. It will keep a man from murder, blasphemy, adultery (as well as other disobedience to the revealed law of God) and it will lead and enable a Christian to live in such a way that he can be a stepping stone to other people instead of a stumbling block. (And yes, I know that the message of God is a stumbling block to sinners, but these are two different kinds of stumbling blocks). We as Christians should be a help to others, not a hindrance to godliness. We as Christians should be a blessing to others, not a burden to them. LOVE makes it possible to do that which is possible to serve others rather than serve self.
I also added...
(friend) thank you for your question and your very kind words.
I know that I have other friends with basically the same question. My short and quick answer was not intended to be curt. I just like to respond quickly, and I felt like my best answer was the one that kept to my original point. I also intended to address the passages you mentioned. So I will do that (Lord willing) soon, I hope.
As you know, this format is not the best for any in depth discussion. I actually wish that I could sit and discuss many of the topics in here, face to face with friends. It would be cool to have a Star Trek Transporter, but with the problems I sometimes encounter with FB, and Google, there is no telling what would happen to us. Probably run into Mike TeaVee from Willy Wonka.
1 Thessalonians 5:22
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
Romans 14:13-23
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
If the principles I covered in the post and mention in this comment are accurate, then no one needs to drink alcohol. It is said that alcoholics are born with a natural propensity and weakness concerning alcohol. While some folks may be able to drink a glass (or whatever), there are others who will be addicted to this intoxicant with their first taste. If a person takes their first taste because they see a Christian drink, and that person becomes addicted to something that does cause untold misery, then that Christian has not avoided the appearance of evil and that Christian has put an unnecessary stumbling block before someone.
Also, the Bible is clear about NOT DRINKING STRONG DRINK.
You will notice that i did not address your passages. In fact, I have faced many passages, usually offered by drunks in defense of drinking. I am not saying that your references don't need to be answered, but I don't need to answer them in order to support my argument in my post and in this comment. There is nothing in the Bible that is going to contradict the idea of avoiding the appearance of evil or the idea of putting stumbling block in front of others.
As I said, no one needs to drink and in fact, there are multitudes who must not drink alcohol. Drinking alcohol is not for anyone's good but it is for selfish pleasure.
I have family who been destroyed by alcohol. I have family who have lost loved ones to alcohol. I have friends who have lost loved ones because of alcohol. DRINKING ALCOHOL IS NOT A NECESSITY. GIVE IT UP is my cry.
I have friends and loved one who have relatives who are either held in the grip of alcohol or are ripe candidates for addiction. GIVE IT UP for other people's sake.
This is not a great forum for arguing my position. However, I cannot see why any Christian would promote the consumption of alcohol (by example) when the benefits are nil and the tragedies are beyond measure.
Love is the answer. For love of Christ and love of others we should give up that which is destroying others. Love of God and love of others should supercede love of Bud or love of wine or love of any alcohol beverage.
And, by the way, I understand that the Romans passage is addressing the problem of meat offered to idols. However, the principle of love ruling in our lives is applicable here. Another thing I want to mention is the fact that the Romans passage is not saying that disobedience to the law or commands of God (murder, blasphemy, adultery etc) are on the same level as eating meat and drinking wine in this context. LOVE fulfills the law. It will keep a man from murder, blasphemy, adultery (as well as other disobedience to the revealed law of God) and it will lead and enable a Christian to live in such a way that he can be a stepping stone to other people instead of a stumbling block. (And yes, I know that the message of God is a stumbling block to sinners, but these are two different kinds of stumbling blocks). We as Christians should be a help to others, not a hindrance to godliness. We as Christians should be a blessing to others, not a burden to them. LOVE makes it possible to do that which is possible to serve others rather than serve self.
I also added...
(friend) thank you for your question and your very kind words.
I know that I have other friends with basically the same question. My short and quick answer was not intended to be curt. I just like to respond quickly, and I felt like my best answer was the one that kept to my original point. I also intended to address the passages you mentioned. So I will do that (Lord willing) soon, I hope.
As you know, this format is not the best for any in depth discussion. I actually wish that I could sit and discuss many of the topics in here, face to face with friends. It would be cool to have a Star Trek Transporter, but with the problems I sometimes encounter with FB, and Google, there is no telling what would happen to us. Probably run into Mike TeaVee from Willy Wonka.
